Cai Yuanpei and others participating in this academic exchange meeting actually appreciated He Rui's expressed attitude in their hearts. The more one had truly read the Four Books and Five Classics and truly studied them, the more one could understand what He Rui was saying. Those who truly understood traditional Chinese culture were actually somewhat disapproving of 'Smashing the Confucius Shop.'

The slogan "Down with the Confucius Shop, Save Master Confucius" was first proposed during the May Fourth Movement, but the term "Confucius Shop" originated from Hu Shi in the New Culture Movement.

Hu Shi proposing "Smashing the Confucius Shop" also had its realistic background. At that time, Kang Youwei, the "Sage Kang," persevered in proposing "Respecting Confucius" to the Beiyang government many times. If it were just respect, it would be fine, but Kang Youwei believed that Confucianism should be designated as the "State Religion," and even proposed including it in the constitution.

Like any feudal imperial era in the past, when Yuan Shikai changed the era name to Hongxian and when Zhang Xun restored the monarchy, out of the purpose of maintaining their own rule and also to maintain social stability, they both elevated Confucius to the position of supreme sage.

In the New Culture Movement, thinkers brought out "Mr. Democracy" representing democracy and "Mr. Science" representing science, which were in conflict and opposition with Confucius, the grandmaster and spokesperson of the "Confucianism used by traitors of the people in past dynasties." If Confucius was not pulled down from his horse, Mr. Democracy and Mr. Science would have no seats. Under the situation of serious opposition in ideological trends at that time, it was difficult for the two sides to coexist.

The pioneers of the New Culture Movement represented by Hu Shi still possessed a lot of scientific and rational spirit. They only opposed the other party using the signboard of Confucius. "It is not attacking Confucius himself, but attacking the authority of the idol of Confucius sculpted by monarchs of past dynasties; it is not attacking Confucius, but attacking the soul of despotic politics."

By the time of the May Fourth Movement, the slogan had become "Down with the Confucius Shop, Save Master Confucius." Radicals also consciously lifted the first half of the sentence and ignored the second half. At the fierce moment of fighting for public discourse power, they often could not take into account and found it difficult to explain the purpose of "Saving Master Confucius." The common people needed some black-and-white popular theories. Mentioning "Smash the Confucius Shop" alone was simple, clear, and distinct. Why waste breath? One immediately knew who was with whom.

However, seeing He Rui actually cite Xunzi's words, some scholars didn't quite understand. Zhou Shuren stood up and asked, "Mr. He, I wonder where you think the difference lies between Xunzi and Confucius/Mencius?"

Many scholars thought He Rui would start from the perspective of knowledge and analyze the differences between these people. More scholars actually hadn't read Xunzi's books carefully. They wanted to hear how He Rui introduced Xunzi, a scholar who was not famous in 1925.

Under everyone's expectation, He Rui said readily, "I support Xunzi because Xunzi himself was a materialist. In his era, the understanding of natural science was not profound, but all of Xunzi's thoughts were built on the perspective of materialism. The characteristic of materialism is that matter is primary and consciousness is secondary. As long as matter is primary, then the existence of the biological species of humans came first, and then there was thinking based on humans. Confucius and Mencius did not touch upon this aspect at all. They put forward many of their own explanations for the cognition of human thought. But these explanations themselves had no foundation in materialism. Even if Confucius and Mencius themselves might not be idealists, their doctrines, and the later generations who inherited their doctrines, turned these into idealism."

After speaking, He Rui wrote the four big characters 'Haoran Zhengqi' [Noble Spirit] on the blackboard, then turned around and asked, "Do you gentlemen think there is Haoran Zhengqi in the world?"

Many scholars frowned. Zhou Shuren felt that since he raised the question, he replied, "I think there is Haoran Zhengqi."

He Rui expressed agreement readily. "I also think there is Haoran Zhengqi. But did this Haoran Zhengqi appear before humans or after humans?"

For ordinary people who haven't studied this issue, this question is meaningless, or even baffling. But for scholars who considered themselves to have studied Chinese culture at this time, it was a very, very serious question. How Confucius and Mencius viewed this issue is actually not recorded much in later generations. But for that group of learners in later generations, a considerable number of people really believed that Haoran Zhengqi already existed between heaven and earth, and the sages of China felt Haoran Zhengqi and understood Haoran Zhengqi.

If, as He Rui said, Haoran Zhengqi appeared after humans, this was undoubtedly a huge opposition to scholars who identified with the idea that the world was full of Haoran Zhengqi.

Immediately, scholars stood up to oppose and put forward their own views. He Rui was not in a hurry to refute but listened attentively. At the same time, he was also judging his identity and status in this 'seminar.'

In China, a relatively clear class of 'intellectuals' appeared more than two thousand years ago. This class did not truly identify with power and status, nor did it care particularly about background. Therefore, people like Yuan Shikai and Duan Qirui, including officials of the former Qing Dynasty, were not regarded as insiders by the current 'intellectuals.'

Judging from the current discussion process, He Rui was obviously treated as one of their own by this group of 'intellectuals.' However, He Rui was not the only one in the current Republic government regarded as an insider by the intellectual circle.

Zhao Tianlin, Lu Daoming, Wu Youping, Zhuang Jiaxiong—these people were also regarded as insiders by intellectuals. Or rather, the vast majority of ministers in the current Republic government were regarded as insiders by intellectuals. The reason was simple: this group of people were people with real academic qualifications and understanding. They had the same background and various mentorship relationships as this group of intellectuals.

It must be said that in another space-time, this same group of intellectuals also regarded Chairman Mao as one of their own. That was why various intellectuals recited poetry and composed lyrics with Chairman Mao.

Now that He Rui could be accepted by this group of people, it could save He Rui a lot of effort. He Rui might not necessarily like this group of intellectuals, just as this group of intellectuals might not necessarily like He Rui. But if they could communicate effectively, a lot of unnecessary opposition could be reduced.

After the opponents expressed their opinions, He Rui began to answer, or rather, began to issue 'violent theories.'

These violent theories were not made up by He Rui, but He Rui moved the earth evolution theory from another space-time over. And also wrote it into a book.

He Rui started from the formation of the earth, especially the development history of how the earth became a 'carbon-based life' planet.

Listening to He Rui talk with fervor and assurance, many scholars were shocked. But He Rui himself didn't show off deliberately, but tried to build a 'knowledge structure.' This knowledge structure started from 'carbon-based life,' letting the scholars off stage understand that the human body was not created by some inexplicable mysterious power, but a transient appearance in billions of years of evolution.

After constructing this knowledge structure, all arguments about 'human nature' naturally collapsed of themselves. As for Haoran Zhengqi, it became even more baffling.

After He Rui finished speaking, Cai Yuanpei was not particularly shocked. He stood up among a group of scholars who were quite pained by listening to the lecture. "Brother He, are you preaching 'evolutionism'?"

"It is correct to say so, and also incorrect. Because what I want to say is that the word evolution [progression] may not be accurate. Because evolution seems very purposeful. The word evolution [change/unfolding] is more accurate. Life evolves into various forms in various environments. The appearance of humans is just one result of various evolutions. The reason why I mention this is that this content is what Civilization Party members and government personnel must learn. The purpose of learning this is to let Civilization Party members and government officials learn to build a train of thought, that is materialism."

This kind of purely academic discussion content was also somewhat incomprehensible to Cai Yuanpei because the knowledge He Rui spoke of had no reality. Even knowing the earth's history of billions of years in the past, people today still have to live in the present.

Just when Cai Yuanpei was confused, He Rui continued, "Materialism is the basic starting point for the Civilization Party and the current government to formulate policies. Gentlemen wanting to smash the Confucius Shop is undoubtedly an ideological movement. For the government and the Civilization Party, this is something that must be faced. Therefore, I came to communicate with you gentlemen. Personally, I can understand everyone's desire for China to become strong and progress. However, any action at the social level will have consequences, and ultimately it is the current Chinese society and Chinese people who bear the consequences. This is the area where the government must take action. Formulating order and managing society are the bounden duties of the government."

Only then did Cai Yuanpei feel he understood why He Rui came to say so much; it turned out he was shouting to these scholars. Of course, Cai Yuanpei did not dislike He Rui valuing scholars so much. Cai Yuanpei could also see that other scholars did not dislike being valued so much.

However, a scholar still asked with a smile, "Mr. He, doing this, aren't you trying to suppress speech?"

Although the words seemed heavy, the scholar's tone was actually very relaxed. After all, everyone had seen the world and knew what true suppression of speech was. Saying this was just an insider cracking a relaxed joke.

He Rui laughed along with the others. When the atmosphere became more relaxed, He Rui explained, "If it is a debate between scholars, such as the evolution of the earth today, it is a scientific issue. It does not affect Chinese society or people's lives. However, smashing the Confucius Shop, in the view of the Civilization Party, is a very serious political issue. As I said before, in the cognition of the Civilization Party, the so-called Confucius Shop is a social system based on the small peasant economy. Since it involves social system issues, of course, we have to express our attitude. And gentlemen know very well that in the economic thinking of the new government, the goal at this stage is to restore the lives of people in grassroots rural areas from a state of bankruptcy to a normal small peasant economy as soon as possible. There is a lot of content to discuss in this."

Most scholars were willing to accept He Rui's view at this time. The later three feudal dynasties of Yuan, Ming, and Qing also honored Confucius in name, but what they actually used was dogmatic Cheng-Zhu Neo-Confucianism, that is, the thoughts of Zisi and Mencius. In modern times, for conservatives, such as Yuan Shikai and the Beiyang warlords who wanted restoration, and Chiang Kai-shek who wanted dictatorship, they certainly strongly promoted the Confucian thoughts of Confucius that had been castrated by Confucian scholars who always wanted to maintain feudal rule and vested interests and wore the same pair of pants as feudal emperors. Because this castrated Confucian thought emphasized the divine right of kings, the Three Bonds and Five Constant Virtues, etc., which was extremely beneficial to maintaining feudal rule and dictatorial rule.

However, as the Qing government, which closed the country to international intercourse, became increasingly corrupt, and as modern China fell increasingly seriously behind the West. Gradually, more and more Chinese began to open their eyes to see the world. Since then, "Western learning spreading to the East" began, and more and more people of insight began to oppose Confucianism and Confucians. It needs to be explained that this anti-Confucianism was essentially against "Cheng-Zhu Neo-Confucianism" and "Three Bonds and Five Constant Virtues," and had little to do with Confucius actually. In other words, as the number one representative and founder of Confucianism, Confucius was innocent but got hit; he was accidentally injured.

Since modern times, the earliest to raise objections to Confucian thought were the Reformists and Revolutionaries. The leaders of the Reform Movement—Kang Youwei, Liang Qichao, etc.—believed that Confucius's thoughts still had certain reference points and could be retained. However, for radical revolutionary leaders, they believed that Confucius's thoughts represented the thoughts of the feudal era and must be cleared away, completely unretainalbe, that is, Confucius must be pulled down from the altar. Of course, those holding similar views included people of insight in the New Culture Movement.

For example, the representatives of advanced intellectuals in the New Culture Movement—Chen Duxiu, Li Dazhao, etc.—criticized Confucius's thoughts as the biggest cancer of the feudal era, seriously shackling the thoughts of the Chinese people; making the people unable to see or feel the importance of the democratic revolution. Therefore, in this movement, under the slogans of "Democracy" and "Science," led by Chen Duxiu, Li Dazhao, Lu Xun, etc., a large number of patriotic intellectual youths advocated awakening the Chinese people ideologically. Subsequently, they shouted "Down with the trend of respecting Confucius and restoring the ancient, fight against feudal decadent thoughts!"

Since He Rui was not messing around, everyone was also willing to communicate with the current ruling party, the 'Civilization Party.' After all, this group of scholars still had quite the tradition of old literati and did not like 'parties.' Because in the Confucian tradition, forming a party meant seeking personal gain and attacking each other. Not only in the rule of the old dynasties, 'forming a party' politically was a capital crime. In the eyes of traditional literati, parties were already unjust.

But He Rui didn't care about these. He came this time to propagate the concepts and policies of the Civilization Party to these people because the propaganda front would never be a vacuum; it was really 'either the East wind prevails over the West wind, or the West wind prevails over the East wind.' Moreover, propaganda is an offensive tool, and one must instill one's own concepts into the people. In this regard, He Rui was very pained by some experiences and lessons of New China.

After a discussion, the intellectuals did not really accept He Rui's views. But at least everyone understood the propositions of He Rui and the Civilization Party, and both sides enhanced understanding, at least increasing the intellectuals' understanding of the Civilization Party's views.

In the end, most intellectuals did not agree with the Civilization Party's views. But the two sides still reached a general consensus.

The current 'Way of Confucius and Mencius' had been usurped by 'Cheng-Zhu Neo-Confucianism.' If Confucius knew in the netherworld, he would definitely say: "I have long passed away. What does the rule of feudal emperors in the more than 2,000 years after me have to do with me? Even if I want to intervene, as a dead body, I am powerless!" After all, Old Master Confucius did not propose and repeatedly emphasize the Three Bonds and Five Constant Virtues. Old Master Confucius also stressed the 'Six Arts' and understood armed self-protection, nor did he require feudal rulers to value civil over martial, close the country to international intercourse, etc. In other words, many Confucian scholars and feudal rulers, on the premise of castrating Confucius's Confucian thoughts, were actually using Confucius, that is, under the banner of Confucius, blatantly blindly sticking to old ways, halting progress, and then maintaining feudal rule! And all of this actually had little to do with Confucius. After all, Old Master Confucius passed away more than 2,000 years ago!

Finally, He Rui even quickly flowed through a 'bureaucratic article' in his mind.

...Attributing the errors of feudal rule and all the responsibilities for modern China's backwardness to Old Master Confucius is truly inappropriate and extremely irrational! Everyone should also see that Confucius and his Confucian thoughts have had an extremely profound impact on China. There are many positive and enterprising things in his thoughts, it's just that these contents were castrated by some Confucian scholars with ulterior motives and feudal emperors. In fact, we don't need to doubt at all that Confucius, as a person, although having some limitations of his own, does not affect his greatness. That is to say, Confucius has always been one of the few sages who have had a huge impact on China and even the world.

Of course, if we must blame Confucius, we can only blame his disciples and grand-disciples for misinterpreting and castrating his Confucian thoughts. For example, the dogmatic "Cheng-Zhu Neo-Confucianism" essentially originated from the Confucianism created by Confucius, but it was most likely not Confucius's original intention; the "Three Bonds and Five Constant Virtues" that modern people of insight particularly resented were summarized and proposed by Dong Zhongshu, and the source can also be traced back to Confucius's Confucian thoughts; however, this cannot be completely said to be Confucius's doing. Overall, Confucius does have some joint liability. But no matter what, the main responsibility does not lie with Confucius, but with those disciples and grand-disciples of Confucius (Confucian scholars) who were bent on maintaining feudal rule and misinterpreted and castrated Confucius's Confucian thoughts, as well as the feudal emperors who used Confucius...

Of course, He Rui was not satisfied with such content either. The insight of intellectuals in society now was just like this. But being able to have such a consensus was already considered very good.

To what extent the propaganda of the Civilization Party could be popularized in the future had nothing to do with this group of intellectuals.

He Rui originally thought this meeting would end in such an atmosphere. However, Chen Duxiu stood up and raised a question, "Mr. He, since you proposed the social development stages from small peasant economy to small commodity economy, and then to socialized mass production. I wonder why we must experience the process of small peasant economy? Why can't we rebuild the current China directly according to the model of socialized mass production?"

He Rui liked such a question very much, so he explained, "Because the current level of productivity is insufficient. And the efficiency of the people in mastering new productivity is insufficient. Politics is not simply issuing orders, but building order and running order. No matter how good the idea is, if problems are bound to occur during the execution process, then it will definitely lead to social tragedy."