"We expect that the future leader of China should be Your Excellency He Rui." After speaking, Joffe observed He Rui's expression.

He Rui not only showed no joy, but his expression quickly became serious and unhappy. "Commissar Joffe, who the leader of China is, is China's internal affair. No foreign power should intervene in China's internal affairs!"

Such an attitude did not surprise Joffe, who continued to probe, "Then will the Chinese government recognize the Bolshevik government?"

"I am not the central government and cannot decide such matters."

"Does General He recognize the Bolshevik government?"

"If the Bolshevik government reaches an agreement with the Northeast local government, it has no legal effect."

Hearing this, Joffe felt much more relieved. He Rui was currently a legitimate local government recognized internationally, while the Bolshevik government had not received international recognition. Any statement or agreement between the two parties would not have legal validity. This was the realistic situation. At least He Rui did not refuse but merely pointed out the realistic situation, which meant that He Rui's personal attitude was not opposed to the Bolsheviks.

This was a basis acceptable to the Bolshevik government, upon which discussions could continue. "General He's understanding of human needs yesterday left a deep impression on me. How does General He view China's various needs?"

He Rui finally waited for the opportunity and spoke frankly, "China's strategic opponent is currently Japan. In the future, as China is liberated, it will also include Britain, and even the United States, which is striving to enter the Northeast Asian region. Our strategic pressure comes from the east and the south."

Joffe nodded slightly; from China's perspective, this was a very pragmatic attitude. As for He Rui frankly pointing out the three countries—Japan, Britain, and the US—this was the frankness that should exist in high-level diplomatic discussions. If He Rui pretended that these three countries were not China's strategic threats, he would be lying with his eyes open.

Just as Joffe was waiting for He Rui to discuss strategic threats from the west and north, He Rui switched the topic to present-day Russia. "Commissar Joffe, I believe the greatest threat to the Bolshevik government at present is the security of the regime. Russia is still in a civil war. Once the Bolshevik government wins the civil war, it will face threats from Eastern Europe. In my personal view, Russia's security strategic order is: domestic Russia, the Eastern European direction, the Caucasus region, and the Central Asian region. I wonder what suggestions Comrade Joffe has regarding this view?"

Any qualified military-political leader should make such a judgment. So Joffe had no objections. Moreover, Joffe keenly felt that He Rui seemed to deliberately avoid the Sino-Russian border and didn't mention Siberia. This gave Joffe an expectation, hoping that He Rui was truly a qualified leader.

Since He Rui had spoken to this extent, Joffe recounted the view of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, or rather Comrade Lenin, on Russia's strategic security. "General He, the Siberian region is not the main strategic direction of the Bolshevik government. Precisely because of this, we are even less willing to see any threats appear in this direction."

He Rui nodded repeatedly. "The cost of maintaining peace in the Siberian region is too high, making ends meet impossible. Strategically considering, for example, the Ukraine region bears strategic pressure from Eastern Europe. The construction invested to ensure strategic security in this aspect is of huge help to the overall national strength of the Bolshevik government. But in Siberia, the investment in the Lake Baikal region is indeed not worth the loss. Investing too much is a severe waste for the country. Investing too little plays no role. So peace and strategic mutual trust in these regions are the only correct methods."

Joffe felt He Rui had begun to make demands, and in a relatively mature manner, so he followed He Rui's words. "Is General He willing to see the security of the Bolshevik regime's Siberia, Lake Baikal region, and the Far East Railway?"

He Rui nodded. "Of course. Our two countries were very happy to see the security of these Russian regions during the Qing Dynasty. I personally have an ideal, which is to no longer station troops on the entire border with Russia, with only a small number of border defense troops existing symbolically. After all, against criminals crossing the border, police armed only with light weapons have limited deterrent capability. The border should be a symbol of peace, not a starting point for war with swords drawn and bows bent on both sides. I wonder if the Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) holds the same view."

Joffe smiled. "Communists all hope for world peace; the purpose of a just war is always to achieve peace."

"Since that's the case, I look forward to negotiating with the Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) so that China and Russia can have a peaceful border line. And based on peace, promote friendly relations between the two countries."

Joffe hadn't expected He Rui's attitude to be so sincere. Originally, he thought He Rui would launch a fierce attack on Russia's past invasion of China to gain a moral advantage. Since He Rui expressed sufficient goodwill, Joffe must establish some strategic foundations. "General He talked about China's future strategic direction. What is the basis for thinking about this strategic direction? I am very curious about this."

"The existing world order is established under the imperialist order. The characteristics of the imperialist system have long been discussed countless times: external plunder, internal oppression. Because internal oppression stimulates huge contradictions, the imperialist regime distributes part of the plundered wealth in the form of national welfare. Moreover, it must be wealth plundered from outside, not by reducing internal oppression to reduce the burden borne by the people. I think Commissar Joffe should be very clear about this."

Joffe nodded. "If it were by reducing internal pressure, there would be no way to continue inciting the citizens of imperialist countries to participate in external plundering actions."

In this era, not only communists attacked the imperialist system; all social elites with a bit of advanced thinking were attacking it, and the analysis of the imperialist system itself was already very thorough.

Just as Joffe said, if the people discovered they could obtain their own interests by struggling against the domestic ruling class, who would risk their lives to go abroad to fight? Therefore, imperialist countries must make the welfare enjoyed by citizens come from external plunder, forcing those citizens expecting to gain benefits to participate in the imperialist government's external plundering actions.

He Rui continued along the mutual consensus. "Therefore, I oppose the international order constructed by imperialism. This is a barbaric order, an ugly order, an order that a truly civilized country can never accept."

Except in the Central Committee of the Communist Party (Bolsheviks), Joffe rarely heard such frank statements opposing the imperialist order. Even before and at the beginning of the European war, when European Communist Parties and left-wingers tried hard to oppose the war, they generally encountered a fierce backlash from domestic nationalist sentiments. In the end, all the so-called moderate socialists threw themselves into this war. Then they turned into millions upon millions of corpses, becoming victims of the imperialist war for hegemony.

Originally, Joffe didn't want to mention the sensitive issue of nationalism, but at this moment, he felt He Rui very likely had already stepped past the limitations of nationalism.

"General He, are you a nationalist?"

"I was a fierce nationalist when I was young. Later, as I grew and my knowledge structure gradually improved, my view of nationalism changed. Nationalism originates from the group need in human biology—family, tribe. The sense of security brought by such biology projected onto sociality forms group demand. With social development, after the imagined community of the nation-state appeared, this group emotion was projected onto the entity of the state. For social mobilization, from the perspective of defending the country, nationalism is very efficient. In this European war, even Germany wouldn't preach to the German people that 'We Germany want to defeat the army composed of French people and then enslave the French people forever'. Germany's internal propaganda is also that Germany is threatened externally; to protect Germany and bring a bright future to the German people, Germany must defeat the Entente Powers who have evil intentions toward Germany. Only such nationalist propaganda can unite the German people and make them throw themselves into the hellish battlefield."

Speaking of this, He Rui couldn't help but smile. "It must be said, regarding propaganda, the Tsar's government's level was really poor. When the war became about the Tsar's glory, it basically failed."

Joffe wanted to laugh but couldn't, so he asked, "Then is General He's propaganda in China nationalist, communist, or the concept proposed by General He?"

"From 1840 to now, it's been almost 80 years. China has always been invaded and harmed by great powers. I don't even need to propagandize; there are ample Chinese nationalist sentiments to utilize. So what I want to do is to let China gain liberation under strong Chinese nationalist demand. At the same time, through education, let the Chinese people understand that walking into the world with strong nationalist sentiments leaves only the choice of imperialism. I know the Communist Party (Bolsheviks) genuinely believes in communism. But as long as one takes the initiative to go out of the country, nationalism will lead to an imperialist line. Capitalist countries will engage in their imperialism, socialist countries will engage in Red Imperialism; the overall direction won't change much."

Joffe felt He Rui's image changed from 'Prince-elector' to a university professor again, which made Joffe sense danger. The degree of reaction of university professors often exceeded that of feudal lords because feudal lords enjoyed a superior life and could enjoy life as they pleased. So they were actually more humane.

University professors in cold studies often had their humanity greatly worn down, or even obliterated. The weakening or even absence of humanity made university professors' thinking often more biased. In the eyes of university professors, the 'uneducated' masses were not treated as humans.

"Does General He oppose nationalism?" Joffe asked.

"I said before, nationalism is the projection of biology on the social level; I prefer to call it love. Any organization, once it engages in nationalism, must prioritize a certain part of its members. Loving one's native land, loving one's family—this is human instinct. These instincts cannot be eliminated. When imperialists commit various inhuman atrocities in the name of love, they are very sincere. They probably know themselves that they have committed evil acts that can never be forgiven, but supported by love, they can identify with this love, believing they are just martyrs, victims, sacrificing themselves for a noble purpose. Especially when their opponent is not righteous either, this emotion will only be stronger."

Joffe felt this might be the most humane speech by a university professor he had ever heard, yet he was still rather skeptical. "General He believes the nationalism problem can only be solved through education?"

"Not education. Rather, letting people build a more complete cognitive system. Building a complete cognitive system requires very high levels of productivity development and abundance of social resources. But it can be done. It's just very difficult to do at this stage. However, building a political party with the goal of developing productivity to challenge and defeat the current imperialist international order is much easier. In the future, when a new international order is established, recognizing the nationalist components of each country but eliminating nationalist emotions in the international order, it is completely possible to build a brand-new world order and push the entire human society onto the path of developing productivity. I not only have deep confidence in this but will also do my utmost to carry it out."

Joffe was speechless for a moment. Although he still didn't understand which sect of communism He Rui believed in, these words themselves were undoubtedly the speech of a communist.

In this speechlessness, Joffe began to describe anew what kind of person He Rui actually was. But classifying He Rui as a communist in a short time—Joffe found he couldn't do it immediately.